> I don't see living together as a cop-out, though. If you define "marriage" as "having had a church wedding ceremony", then I would have to say I am not married. However, if you define it as a committed lifelong union of love, mutual respect and all the rest, in which separation is not an option, then I am certainly married. After eleven years I see no difference between our "living together" and anybody else's "marriage" - in fact, we have seen one of our properly-married friends get through upwards of three properly-married and subsequently properly-divorced wives in that time.
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> There are many reasons to get married, and of course for many people it is a religious obligation to do so instead of living together. I think these days it's a personal decision. The "cop-out" element of living together, as I see it, would be in settling for a long series of cheap, short-term failed relationships. And that sort of failure isn't restricted to the unmarried. The commitment of both partners to each other and their relationship is what's important, whether married or not.
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> Brunnen-"not against getting married, there just hasn't seemed to be any reason to"G

Although I have my views on living together, that wasn't my main reason for posting. I think Brunnen_G explains what I failed to do and that is that people can use stupid reasons for living together and for getting married and there are often stupid reasons involved in ending the relationship. In the U.S., Brunnen_G would be under a common law marriage at this point. I admire her commitment even though I disagree with her method. At least she is sincere and open about it instead of trying to set up a smoke screen for herself.

Marriage (and commitment) is too often not taken seriously and people try to fool themselves into thinking otherwise. I would rather see a wedding ceremony at a hotel, run by a judge, and completely absent of "religion," than one where it is in a church because of tradition or because they don't want to upset Aunt Martha. If the wedding day is already a sham, how well can the participants actually treat the marriage?

Ferrick