Sam: So, I want to run an idea by all you.
Goosey: IDEA
Sam: I'm not entirely sure how it would work, but we could maybe iron out some details.
Goosey: So tell. :)
Sam: Basically the idea stems from the tokens at a few of the RinkUnions. If you weren't there for one of those, basically I threw official Rinkworks tokens (plastic Bingo chips with "R" written on them in black marker) whenever somebody did something cool. Like, you got a few just for showing up at the RU, and you got some if you stood up and did something or made something or presented something or performed or whatever. Or just for cracking a good joke. It was fairly arbitrary but just something sort of fun.
Goosey: Okay, I've heard of those, yeah.
* Nyperold nods.
Sam: So I thought about how that kind of idea might work online as a sort of currency system. You earn "tokens" -- your count being listed in the user list here, or at least in your /profile -- for any number of things that constitute participation on RinkWorks. Some certain smallish amount merely for being logged into chat -- or perhaps more specifically engaging in conversation on chat -- and some for posting to the forum or posting a comment somewhere.
Goosey: Oh, that could be fun.
Sam: Larger rewards for things like drawing comics for the comics section, submitting anecdotes to Computer Stupidities or Things People Said, etc.
Goosey: Mere status symbols? Or can we use them for stuff?
Sam: Then you could trade them amongst yourselves -- if someone helps you out with something, you can give some tokens in return.
Goosey: Oh, cools.
Goosey: /token Sam 10
Nyperold: Hmm. Could be interesting.
* TalkingDog probably wouldn't want to know what his score is compared to others, greater or smaller.
goldfishy: Yeah I'm thinkin im gonna be unpopular all over again
Sam: Well, that's what I'm trying to figure out. I think there ought to be a place where you can "buy" things, the obvious being op status in RinkChat. I'd probably strip everybody of op status and let people buy-in. That would make it fairer and also calibrated to the people who are most active here. There would have to be something to prevent the situation of buying into op status and then not being around, so maybe you'd only get it for a set period of time, or I don't know.
Sam: Well, that's what I don't want. I don't want it to be a measure of popularity, only of participation.
ThePhan: That could be fun!
* ThePhan responds a bit late, but she still thinks it could (and would) be fun!
goldfishy: Buying ops sounds kinda dangerous to me but then I guess with the way you earn credit it *shouldn't* be
Sam: So you wouldn't get tokens based on how someone might judge your contributions, only for making contributions. (On the other hand, there might have to be a safeguard against earning tokens for posting "kljasfdkljaslfdkaskjlfdhlksjf" over and over again or something.)
Sam: goldie: That was my thought, too. It's somewhat scary, but in *theory* it *should* work. And if it does work, it could be an improvement.
Nyperold: Hmm. Yeah.
Sam: Oh, certainly you'd earn points for playing bot games -- both for scoring well in them, but also for merely playing at all.
ThePhan: Gah. I don't know if I should attempt a nap before rehearsal or if it'd just make me more tired.
Sentynel: I'm not entirely sure I see the point.
niekie: Sounds fun.
Sam: I want to have more things you can buy, but I'm stuck thinking of what. The system would work best, though, if there is a practical *use* for tokens, so that they aren't simply an abstract value you could choose to care about or not, but something that actually enables you to do something. That sort of conflicts with my desire to keep the content on the site free, but theoretically tokens could allow you levels of access to parts of the site (I suppose access to the Rinkies' Sanctuary should be something like that, as it's only supposed to be for people who participate here). But I don't really like the idea of closing off pieces of the site.
Sam: Anyway, if you think this sort of idea would be fun, maybe you could help me think about what *practical* use the tokens might be.
Sam: I keep running into circular lines of thought. For example, let's say I set up an automated way for people to submit "TOPICBOT!" lines. Do I have a reward of tokens for submitting to it, or should it cost a small amount to be able to submit a line of your choice?
* TalkingDog would have more fun with it if it wasn't practical, he thinks. Less useful things like having your name appear in purple in the user list, or other random "trophies".
Sam: TD: That would be cool.
* ThePhan decides to nap. Or try for a bit, anyway.
ThePhan is away.
Sentynel: I'm against blocking off stuff like the Rinkies' Sanctuary on some arbitrary mathematical contribution level.
Sentynel: Random goodies like coloured userlist names or whatever, sure.
goldfishy: Although I might have known about it by now if there had been tokens ;-p
Sentynel: But I don't agree with any pressure to contribute up to some set level to be counted as a member of the community.
Sentynel: gold: You must know about most of the subpages even if you've never been linked to the top level - the typos, comics, photo album etc.
Sentynel: Also, it's just occurred to me how much like a chain mail "send 120 text messages to get PARTYING" sounds.
Sentynel: "If you forward this message to 120 of your friends, you'll live the party lifestyle! But otherwise, you're doomed to a life of being a LOSER."
goldfishy: nevermind pretend i didnt say anything
Sam: Sent: I see your point, but on the other hand my idea is that you would be earning tokens merely by logging into RinkChat and talking with people. It's not like you'd HAVE to draw a comic or whatever. Or do I not understand your objections sufficiently?
Sentynel: Sam: It's the idea that after you've said n lines in RinkChat, you're now officially a Rinkie.
Sentynel: It just seems too arbitrary.
Sam: I guess.
Sam: I can see how the system might not work optimally in some respects, but I can also see how it would help in others.
Sentynel: I can see the system getting you random aesthetics like coloured names, or maybe stuff like a small section of RinkWebspace for your own stuff or whatever, but I don't like it being used as a determinant of Rinkieness.
Sam: No, I agree.
niekie: Hm, ok, so what about...
Sam: I don't like how there is a binary perception of "Rinkiness" in the first place.
niekie: Hrm, never mind.
Sam: I was actually thinking maybe this would *help* with that. Newcomers might perceive more fairness in it all, rather than feeling like they have to earn personal acceptance or whatever.
Sentynel: (On a different note, this is basically a gigantic rude gesture being waved at the RIAA and it is priceless: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/11/horde-of-piratical-monkeys-resurrects-limewire-pirate-edition.ars )
niekie: .ars?
Sentynel: niekie: It's just a random custom extension to fit the site's branding, as far as I know.
niekie: How silly
goldfishy: It doesn't matter if there's a system that technically denotes you as a Rinkie because you can still feel unaccepted - participation isn't the be all and end all unfortunately
Nyperold: I get it, though the first thing I think of is MGM.
niekie: I wonder why they censored "Pirates of the Carribean" there.
niekie: Nyperold: haha.
Sam: goldie: There's nothing I can do about someone *feeling* accepted or rejected by peers. (Or, at least, nothing I can do with a mechanized token system.) But if people were to, say, buy their way into being an op here, as opposed to hanging around until I arbitrary decide to rejigger the op list, surely that would *feel* like more of a fair system, right?
Sentynel: niekie: I'd guess paranoia because people have been sued for linking to copyrighted material, and they don't want to stick their necks out by going HEY LOOK YOU CAN GET PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN OFF LIMEWIRE.
goldfishy: Depends - I would think that the people who would actually buy ops aren't necessarily the best people to do the job
niekie: Sentynel: ... but it's pretty obvious, hehe.
Sam: Actually, your opinion may particularly interest me on this, because obviously you're not an op, and yet you're more active on the site than some people who *are* ops. The reason for that is purely that I haven't tweaked the op list in a couple of years, and in that time you've come along and others have gotten out of the habit of participating here. But I kind of wonder if that's really how it feels to you.
goldfishy: It's a power thing at the end of the day
Sam: I absolutely agree there.
Sam: That would certainly be a disadvantage.
Sam: On the other hand, such a system wouldn't mean I wouldn't still overrule or demote somebody who is completely disruptive and irresponsible.
niekie: What if you can buy ops from existing ops with tokens, and the existing ops can also get fun things for those tokens?
niekie: E.g. person who does not have privilege X can buy privilege for set amount of tokens from person with privilege X.
niekie: Don't know if that'd help much, but it would at least mostly help with the "I just got ops because I spammed 5000 lines in RinkChat" thing.
Sam: niekie: That might make it more of an insider's club again, right? But that does have the benefit of having an established community member make a personal judgment over that person's suitability for the job.
Sam: Yeah.
niekie: Sam: well, there would be an incentive to make other people who contribute properly ops, as you'd get their tokens.
Sam: Yeah.
Sentynel: Ultimately, though, we *are* a fairly small community, and if you're not accepted by the group, well, it doesn't matter what the magic number says, you still don't fit in.
Sentynel: I don't think that can be changed, really.
Sam: I'm not sure I want to, either. I guess my primary motivation here is to create something fun for those of us who are already here to do. I distracted myself talking about the side benefits to how new people integrate with the group, but that really isn't the driving force behind this.
Sentynel: I think I view it by analogy to the definition of a mathematician - "1) A Rinkie is anyone called a Rinkie by another Rinkie. 2) Sam is a Rinkie."
Maryam: Wait, what? We're talking about what?
Maryam: Earning things for participation?
Sam: Maryam: Let me extract what you missed from the logs.
Sam: I'll want to do that anyway for others.
Maryam: Sorry, I was off doing dishes that badly needed it.
Sam: hehe, no problem.
Maryam: Still got another load to do. :-(
* Sam HUGS Maryam!
Goosey: Maryam: HOORAY! WAY TO GO!
* Maryam HUGS Sam!
Goosey: Maryam: If it makes you feel anybetter, I washed a dish on Monday that I'm certain had syrup on it, but I can't remember the last time I had waffles.
Maryam: And also watching MythBusters.
Maryam: MythBusters is a good motivator for doing dishes. You don't have to pay close attention, but it's still cool to watch.
Goosey: Hehehe.
Sam: "Rinkies accumulating 120 tokens per day are more likely to play bot games, lick brains, and shout "BOOBS!" at people."
Goosey: LOL LOL LOL